Dr. Esther Hio-Tong Castillo is a biracial queer woman, first-generation college student and 1.5 generation immigrant. A sought-after speaker, Dr. Castillo’s identity and life story has strengthened her dedication to improving mental wellness and equities for underserved communities, focusing on immigrant and Asian communities. The former director of Racial Equity, Storytelling, and Community Impact for the City of Philadelphia is a mental-health and social-justice advocate with expertise in diversity, equity and inclusion (DEI) matters. Now serving as the CEO of Accesso Care and the principal consultant at Bridging Worlds Consulting, we spoke to the good doctor about mental health and the struggles to find help in minority communities. Some responses have been edited for length or clarity.
Are you originally from Philly?
No, I’m originally from Macau, China. But I came to Philly when I was 19. That was over 20 years ago.
Tell me a little about Macau. What’s an early memory?
It’s a very small peninsula that was a Portuguese colony for over 500 years. But when I was 14, it was handed over to China. The Portuguese government wanted to get rid of their colonies. It was not a good look for them, so we had this big political transition and it was very unsettling for me. It’s unsettling enough to be a teenager and then to have this happen, where as a teen you know something big is happening but aren’t quite sure what it means. There were a lot of constructed stories to try to change the narrative as statues and museums and architectural artifacts were being torn down. Places that the Portuguese government was trying to advocate being preserved. At 14, that wasn’t significant to me, but now looking back, I understand how destructive that was. Five years later, I moved to the US.
That’s got to be unnerving. You’re living in the same space, but one moment it’s one country and the next it’s a whole different nation!
Yup! Overnight, and I remember the schools started teaching us Mandarin because most people in Macau spoke Cantonese, just like in Hong Kong. It’s the dominant dialect spoken in both places. But as soon as the Chinese government took over, they implemented mandatory Mandarin lessons in the schools.
It sounds like what we did to Native Americans — took over their land and then insisted they learn our language.
Pretty much, yup.
Tell me about the family.
My parents separated when I was 3. I have a half-brother but we didn’t grow up together. He’s about half my age. I grew up with my mom and we were very close when I was a child. We were homeless for a while, but I didn’t know it. She was couch surfing and staying with friends — sleeping in attics or basements or on the couch. What’s funny is that those are some of my favorite childhood memories! I thought me and my mom were going on adventures and I loved it! It was like, “Oooh, where are we going next?” It was nice to share the bed and be so close to my mother. [Laughing] Now I realize, “Oh, we were really poor!”
It’s amazing how children can put such a wondrous spin on things.
Yeah, and I was only about 3 or 4 so I had no idea what kind of stress my mother was going through at the time. Hmmm, I’ve never told my mom that it was a magical time for me. I wonder if I should?
It would probably be a relief.
Possibly, but later on, my mother developed some mental-health problems and the relationship became very challenging…to say the least, especially during those teen years. In addition to the national trauma, we were going through some personal battles too. I think I came to America to escape from her!
Had things stabilized a little at least?
Economically yes, but emotionally it was very difficult. I was going to an all-girls school and trying to find my own identity and form friendships. I began to make friends but still felt isolated because my mom didn’t want me to have any friends. I remember I had one close friend and this was before I was even thinking about things like my sexuality — that didn’t come until much later — but my mom called us lesbians and separated us. She told my friend to never contact me again, and it was awful. And that was just one instance.
She’d contact other friends and warn them off. It was really tough. I had one or two friends who would stand up to her and argue with her, [laughing] I loved it and would laugh on the inside. It was so satisfying to see my friends stand up to her! But she’d win in the end. By the time I was finishing high school, I was very depressed. I’d only weighed 100 lbs and then I was down to 80. I needed to get out of that situation.
Were you involved in any activities in school?
I was in a poem recital club. We’d have teams reciting poems, which I really enjoyed. I tried to join choir, but it was not my thing. But I did really well at school. I made sure I did because I knew it would be my way out.
So you came here at 19 and did I read you went to Temple first?
Yes, I wanted to be a journalist. I love to write and enjoy anything that deals with language and words. I remember once in 1st grade, the teacher asked us to compose a sentence and I wrote a whole essay! But in Asian countries, they’re very strict about obeying rules, so I was actually more embarrassed than anything because I’d missed the point of the assignment.
What was the biggest change or culture shock coming to Philadelphia?
Well, when I came here, I stayed with a white, American family in Havertown and I think the thing that was the hardest for me was not being able to speak my mother tongue. Not because I wasn’t allowed to. There was just no one to talk with. I really missed being able to talk to people in my language, and it put me in a little bit of a depression. Then when I went to Temple, I met a few people from Hong Kong who spoke Cantonese and made some friends. It’s funny. After orientation, we decided to walk from Temple to the Zoo and then to Chinatown. We were so oblivious! We were walking through neighborhoods we probably shouldn’t have, but it was just so nice to be around people I could communicate with freely. I remember ordering wonton soup and almost crying because I’d been eating TV dinners for a month with the host family. No joke, that’s what we ate every night. I thought that’s what Americans ate. It was terrible. So to have some soup that had the taste of home was very moving.
At Temple, you studied a few things, correct?
Yes, I also studied sociology, which I hadn’t planned on getting into, but it really spoke to me. When I was studying journalism, I interned at City Paper, and I’d pitch stories and they’d get shot down. “That’s not the right angle” or “People don’t want to read about inequalities in the Asian community.” Even the school paper turned me down. Except for one essay I submitted to the Inquirer when I was 19 and they published it, but they changed it all around so it basically meant the opposite of what I was trying to say! So sociology really spoke to me. It was my reality. Other people were writing and talking about things I cared about and were interested in what I had to say. I got my PhD at Temple after also studying at NYU for a bit.
What are you doing now?
I’m now the CEO of a startup company doing workforce development to help immigrant workers find jobs as certified nursing assistants. Before that, I was helping manage a community-based mental-health program in Chinatown with Noel Ramirez. We’ve been friends and cheerleaders for each other for a few years now.
Yes, I did Noel’s profile a while back and I saw that he now has a company called Mango Tree Counseling & Consulting, which specializes in mental health wellness and support. It’s for anyone, but they specialize in reaching out to the Asian community.
Yes, and addressing mental health in underserved communities is so important. At the mental-health facility where I was working, we had a slogan: “Community is where mental health begins.” I truly believe that our community as humans is not structured in a way that fosters wellness. I think we need to start to structure spaces where people can have a chance to thrive.
I know in the African-American community historically there has been stigma about mental health and though it’s changing, there are still a lot of barriers, is it the same with Asian communities?
I think there are several layers to it. One is that, like in the Black community, it’s very stigmatized. Not all, but many Asians have immigrant backgrounds and part of that narrative is that you have to assimilate. You have to succeed and to do that, you have to be strong, and struggling with mental health is often seen as a sign of weakness.
Then there is the aspect of Asians being seen as the “model minority.” It’s a myth, but it creates an internal pressure, like we’re supposed to have our shit together at all times.
And a third layer is that the profession itself is very white-washed so it’s hard to find a clinician who looks like you or is Asian identifying, someone who understands you or the Asian experience and the culture. And to top it off, there is a history of racism that extends to the profession itself. All of those things compounded together can make it super hard for people to talk about mental health.
When you do your speaking engagements, what is your main subject?
I talk a lot about the intersection of mental health and racial identity and the need to foster places where people feel safe. And the difference between brave spaces and safe spaces. Brave spaces are where you can have those conversations that are difficult or uncomfortable. Of course, safe spaces are super important. It’s hard to ask people to be brave when there’s no psychological safety.
I’m sure. I meant to ask, did you come out before you left China?
No. In fact, I came out really late, not until I was in my early 30s. I think taking a lot of gender and sexuality classes helped me. I started to think to myself, “OK, I don’t think I’m straight.” I got married 12 years ago and my husband was the first person I came out to. It was tough at first but we’re both growing. It’s a little crazy. I had to unfriend a lot of people who asked a lot of offensive questions and learn to find new friends. I still haven’t come out to my mom. Our relationship is already very strained and I’m more interested in seeking out people who understand and accept who I am and finding community.
That’s understandable, but it must have been isolating, feeling like you have to start over once again to find support.
Yes, but now I feel pretty comfortable being in ambiguous spaces. I think it’s my superpower. Traversing different spaces where I don’t think I fit in completely, but also don’t feel the need to do so. I can just be me and I really like that.
I’m the same. I call myself a quadruple minority — female, lesbian, mixed race and… left-handed!
I’m left-handed too!
Neat. I have a film production company called, 3 Left-Handed Women.
And I produced a film called “Feeling Asian American.” It was about the racial reckoning during COVID.
Yes, that must have been a trying time. Did you experience any discrimination?
There was one incident. I was waiting to cross the street and this random guy started screaming at me to put on a mask. It hurt because I’m pretty sure he was Latino. Even though I don’t present like it, I also identify as Latinx. My dad’s family was from Nicaragua, and I grew up in a Portuguese colony. I already have identity issues of not being Latinx enough, so to have someone from the same culture yell at me was very alienating.
Sorry that happened. OK, let’s do some random questions. I usually pick these out ahead of time but I had a crazy bus ride home with a passenger yelling at the driver for stopping for a wheelchair because we were behind schedule. Then when the wheelchair person got on, the woman wouldn’t move, shouting, “She already has a chair, why do I need to move?”
Oh wow. I do training with SEPTA workers, including bus drivers, and we sometimes do role-playing for situations like that. I wonder if I trained your bus driver!
Possibly. He was very calm and handled the situation really well. OK, what’s a song that gets you going?
Oh that’s hard. There are so many! I’d say Alicia Keys, “Girl on Fire.” [Laughing] I’ve tried to sing it at karaoke but it’s difficult!
Favorite place to go in Philly?
I’m going to pick Chinatown, especially since it’s under fire with this stadium stuff. I don’t want it to disappear.
Three things that irritate you?
People who are not thoughtful and say things without thinking—I’m highly sensitive, so when people blurt out hurtful things without thinking, it bothers me. Impatient drivers. And the last thing that irks me is more a problem with me: I can’t look at my phone if a car is moving, so that’s really annoying.
Three scents that you love.
The smell of Bay leaves. It’s used a lot in cooking where I come from so it makes me think of home. I love the scent of clean laundry. One thing that made me fall for my husband was the smell of his detergent, and I love the smell of my dog Bella’s paws. They smell like popcorn!
Ever have any paranormal experiences?
I did! When I first moved here and was staying with that family, I didn’t mention that it was an 89-year-old lady and I’m pretty sure that her husband died in that house not long before I moved in. One night at 12:30 a.m., the lights started dimming on and off. I don’t really believe in that type of stuff, so I just figured it was electrical. I opened the door to go check it and I kid you not, something pushed me back to my bed! And the phone lines went dead. The next day, I moved out.
Who’s the first person you call when you have good news?
Probably my best friend Mary.
How do you know Mary?
Oooh, that’s another crazy story. I was on a Facebook group called, “Buy Nothing” and some lady was saying that she knew someone who was homeless and needed a place to stay. Everyone was posting resources they thought she should try and I got frustrated wondering why no one stepped up to offer actual help. I thought, “I have an extra room in my house, let me meet her and we’ll see.” We met and I invited her to move in and we’ve been best friends ever since.
Well, that’s a nice heart-warming way to end as we go into the holidays. It reminds me of one of my favorite Shakespeare quotes: “So shines a good deed in a weary world.”