“We will see a breakdown of the family and family values if we decide to approve same-sex marriage, and if we decide to establish homosexuality as an acceptable alternative lifestyle with all the benefits that go with equating it with the heterosexual lifestyle.”
— Jerry Falwell
Well, I hate to tell Jerry, but Pastor Pam William of the Ark of Refuge, a radically inclusive Christian fellowship church, just got married this summer — and her family and all of ours are just fine.
PGN: Hello, Pastor Pam.
PW: Hello, Ms. Nash.
PGN: Let’s start by learning a little about you.
PW: Sure. I’m a lifelong resident of Philadelphia. I grew up on the 5300 block of Spruce Street in West Philadelphia. It was a twin rowhome on a very nice tree-lined street right across from a church, all middle-class families who’ve been there for quite some time. When the area transitioned, my family and one other, the Davis family, were the only African-Americans on the block. We’ve been there for 50 years. It was about 1954, when things changed in the country. My mom moved out in 1996 to take care of my sister, who was ill from renal-cell cancer. I never really left except to go off to college and some other things, but it’s always been my home and I’m now raising my family in the same house.
PGN: Such continuity. How many kids in the family?
PW: I have two kids, a 21-year-old son and a 9-year-old daughter.
PGN: [Laughs] That’s great, though I meant how many kids in your family growing up?
PW: Oh! In my family, we had four boys and three girls.
PGN: Ah, a nice big group. My father had five boys and three girls in his family.
PW: Wow, isn’t that something? My mother didn’t birth them all. Three of the boys in our family were my mother’s sister’s children but my mother raised them from the youngest at 3 months, to the oldest who was 3 years when she got them. But they’ve always been my brothers, no distinction. That’s just the way we were raised. [Laughs] And I’m the youngest, so I came into a family that was fully formed already. There was no difference to me, everybody was just my brother or sister. I have one natural brother and sister remaining. We also had extended family, as my maternal grandmother lived with us too.
PGN: Tell me a little about the folks.
PW: My father’s deceased, but he was a meat packer and a carpenter by trade. My mother was a civil-rights activist in the city of Philadelphia for many years. An astute politician who was a rainmaker. She cared more about making things happen than she did about being in political office. She was a social-justice activist and advocator for the less fortunate. She fought for the people in her community who she thought were being marginalized and oppressed. She did work in the city and statewide and even received a national appointment during Jimmy Carter’s administration. My parents were my backbone. My dad was a stay-at-home father most of the time, which was unusual back then. He knew and respected the work that my mom was doing and since he had children to raise — make that, since they had children to raise — he was the one who went to all the school meetings and collected report cards, made sure we did all our homework and made sure dinner was on the table each night. It was a unique family unit but Dad was still Dad; we just knew that Mom had an important role to play in history. She had activism in her bones and, during the civil-rights era, we understood why it was important for her to continue the work she was doing. You could sit home and be angry that Mom wasn’t there or roll with it. We rolled with it and had a great life. We got to be exposed to a lot of interesting things we might not otherwise have done. We traveled as a family and did family activities. Church was also an integral part of our family. Our house was the hub for everyone.
PGN: What’s a family trip that stands out?
PW: My brother was in the Army and stationed in Stuttgart, Germany. My mother took the entire family over to visit him. While we were there, she took us to the Auschwitz and Dachau concentration camps, and Hitler’s Eagle’s Nest. We went to Innsbruck, Austria, Amsterdam and all sorts of places you usually only read about in history books. We even got to do 115 miles per hour on the Autobahn because my brother wanted to prove to us that he could drive that fast and not get a ticket! I was about 13 and really into my studies. I considered myself an academician so I knew about the tragedies of war and the celebration of Oktoberfest, so to be able to visit Martin Luther’s church and to be in the square during Oktoberfest was something that was incredible for me. And that was just one of several amazing things we did as a family.
PGN: What was your favorite subject in school?
PW: English. I loved history too, but I always wanted to go to law school and was told I needed that English background. I realized later that history would have been fine too.
PGN: What was your favorite book as a kid?
PW: Dr. Seuss’ “Green Eggs and Ham.” Yes ma’am. Sam I am. Later on, it was probably Richard Wright’s “Native Son.”
PGN: I take it somewhere along the way you changed paths?
PW: Yes, I graduated from high school when I was 16 and got admission to a few universities. I chose Spellman College in Atlanta. The school Denise Huxtable from “The Cosby Show” went to in “A Different World” was based on Spellman.
PGN: Yup, I have cousins who went there and to Morehouse.
PW: So you know it. My sister was there at Clark Atlanta University. At 16, it was a totally new experience for me to be in Atlanta. I didn’t fare as well as I should have. To be perfectly honest, Spellman was an all-girl school and I was just beginning to figure out who I was, and there were too many women there for me! Too many distractions! I stayed two-and-a-half years and came home and went to Temple.
PGN: What is it you do now?
PW: I am the pastor of a radically inclusive church in West Philadelphia. I was called to the ministry at 16, the same time I went off to school. I had a trial sermon right before I left for Atlanta — sermon one week, freshman orientation the next. I had an anointing and began to preach the gospel, at first at my home church and then other churches. Later, I found a church I thought that I could grow in and stayed there for 19 years until I became disappointed at the discrimination I encountered. I became involved with Affirming Churches under the direction of Dr. Yvette Flunder and decided to develop the Ark of Refuge Tabernacle, a radically inclusive church. The thrust of our work is social activism and moving people into a relationship with Christ in a place where everyone is accepted and no longer marginalized or oppressed.
PGN: Was the discrimination homophobic?
PW: Oh, there’s a long history of discrimination, especially in the Baptist Church, starting with the sexist treatment of female ministers or preachers. That was happening from the day I started preaching at 16. As far as the homophobia is concerned, that started when we were out doing evangelism. We were out trying to win souls and bring them to a life with Christ. I was in the middle of talking to someone and one of the deacons approached me and said, “Hey, hey, hey. Com’ere, I got a question for you. Are you gay?” I told him that it was not the place and time to ask me that as I was witnessing to someone. When the crowd died down he said, “I really need you to answer that question.” I told him that I didn’t know what the problem was but yes, I was a lesbian and an ordained preacher saving souls. We went back to the church and he told the pastor, who called me into the office and asked why I felt it necessary to tell people about my lifestyle, that it was something that I should keep to myself. At that time I was seeing the woman who is now my wife, but there was a lot of speculation at the church about our relationship. They sat me down from my preaching role and I was no longer allowed to minister. I had some tough times for a while and went into a shell because I was doing a lot of public work and activism and had decided to be free. People couldn’t handle the fact that I was unapologetic, and I didn’t know how to navigate the homophobia. I came out of the circle and concentrated on my relationship and building our family.
PGN: So how did you meet your wife?
PW: We used to operate a 10-cent Bingo game! It was for a charity that my mom had and she was hired as one of the workers. It’s kind of funny because we started out sharing Bible verses and poetry over the phone. That developed into a friendship and a spiritual relationship. Then we started dating and fell in love. She had a 3-year-old son whom we raised together. It’s funny because at the time I met her, I was dating around, not serious about anyone. In fact, I was dating a professional basketball player, male, and had no thought of settling down with anybody when she fell into my lap. That was 18 years ago and we’ve been together ever since. This year the great state of Pennsylvania legalized same-sex marriage, so on July 19 we were wed in a traditional religious ceremony.
PGN: You mentioned you have two kids?
PW: Yes, a 21-year-old son, Tyerick, and a 9-year-old daughter, Jamera.
PGN: And I saw that you operate a company named Tykae’s Shirts.
PW: Yes, we started a T-shirt company around 2000. We started selling shirts at Penn Relay and then opened a store in Clifton Heights but closed that down after someone wrote “Nigga” on our pavement in front of the store. It was a big media story at the time. It’s fun, though; we still have a few customers we work with doing promotional shirts. Our motto was: “You Think It, We Ink It.”
PGN: I like it.
PW: Yes. Hey, did I say enough about my wife?
PGN: Hmmn, you haven’t told me what she does.
PW: Oh, she’s a customer-service rep for the airlines. Which is great because we get to do a lot of traveling for free!
PGN: Where was the honeymoon?
PW: Well, we went to Rehoboth Beach and then we’re planning a trip to Punta Cana.
PGN: Random questions: What movie could you watch over and over?
PW: [Laughs] Anything with Halle Berry! She’s my second wife in my head. Actually, it would probably be an old-school movie, either “Brian’s Song” or “Imitation of Life.”
PGN: Ha. I’ve been told I should play the daughter’s part if they do a remake of “Imitation.” Any pets?
PW: Yes, we have a mixed Beagle and a Cane Corso.
PGN: You go-to karaoke song?
PW: None. Pastor cannot sing. If you want to have a good laugh, catch me singing “It’s Your Thing” by the Isley Brothers.
PGN: The feature I get the most compliments on is …
PW: My wife! No, I guess my smile.
PGN: A song that feels like it was written for you?
PW: “God Has Smiled On Me.” It epitomizes and captures my entire life.
PGN: What events do you have coming up with your church?
PW: In October we’re having a Law Enforcement Day. We’ll have a traditional worship service to honor police and first responders. I had a vision after the events in Ferguson. There’s been a battle between the community and the police force but we need to find a way to forge a relationship. Not all police are bad and not all citizens are innocent. Sometimes the aggression shown by the police is because we haven’t taught our children to respect them, or any elders for that matter. If your kid comes home and says an officer made them stand against a wall for 20 minutes, instead of calling a lawyer, maybe you should see if your kid was doing something they shouldn’t have been. Maybe that officer helped them by letting the situation cool off by standing them at that wall instead of arresting them and giving them a record. Most police officers aren’t violent, most police officers aren’t racial profilers, most police officers are not limited in their level of compassion for the citizenry. We want people to see the police as regular people and we want the police to see people as family members, mothers and fathers. Not everyone is a criminal. Often when a police officer reacts to a situation, they don’t see the person, they just know the act of policing. They don’t think about what they’re doing to a real person. We want them to know the people they serve. In honoring them, we hope to cultivate a relationship that benefits both sides and avoid another Ferguson in our city.
PGN: Amen to that. I have a block meeting coming up and I invited our quadrant officer to talk to the neighbors.
PW: That’s great. We’re also having a Harvest Arts Festival in November. The First Lady is doing it so we don’t want to step on her toes, but we’re borrowing the idea! We’ll have choirs and dancers and music, etc. We’re a new church so we’re looking for people, anyone who wants to fellowship. We also want to start a new choir so we’re especially looking for dancers, singers and musicians, people who want to share their gifts and talents.
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