You know it’s a cool church when the minister fights for a filmmaker’s right to name his production company “I Choose Hell Productions.” The Rev. Nate Walker is the minister of the First Unitarian Church of Philadelphia. An accomplished author and lecturer, he recently completed a research fellowship at Harvard Divinity School and is currently a doctoral candidate at Columbia University. His activism on gay rights, ethical eating and finance reform have been featured by the New York Times, Mother Jones, AirAmerica and other national media venues. He is co-editor of “Whose God Rules?” — former British Prime Minister Tony Blair wrote the forward — which Cornel West called “provocative and pioneering.”
PGN: Are you a Philadelphia native? NW: No, I was actually born in Munich, Germany.
PGN: Munich? NW: My mother saw a production of “The Sound of Music” when she was in high school in Carson City, Nev., and decided that she wanted to go dance in the Alps. She went and her high-school sweetheart flew over to join her and I was conceived. [Laughs.] I believe that I was born gay because of that musical. I blame Julia Andrews!
PGN: That’s a great conception story. NW: Yes, they separated before I was born and we stayed for a year before she moved back to Nevada, where I was raised.
PGN: What was growing up in the Sierras like? NW: Oh it was great. Both my parents are non-religious so we spent most weekends camping. We’d take our horses and camp around a fire, tell stories, make wishes on stars — that was my unconventional religious education. I kind of realized that that was the basics of all religion, gathering around, sharing food and stories. Then I came out of the closet when I was 15 and my grandmother said, “There’s a lesbian up at the Unitarian Fellowship.” So off we went in search of the lesbian. Given the culture of Northern Nevada in 1992, I thought that was an extraordinary response. And that’s how I became a Unitarian Universalist.
PGN: Go Granny! So did your parents get back together? NW: No, my mother remarried when I was 3 and he was the best father I could have hoped for. My biological father stayed in Germany.
PGN: What did the folks do? NW: My mom is an accountant and my dad works in water restoration. They run a lobbying firm representing local interests in the state government to try to counter the major companies like the casinos who try to take away water rights, etc., from local communities. Something sweet, my mom just called me last week to tell me that Nevada just passed a bill that would change the constitution to make it the first constitutional amendment that would be pro-gay marriage. She was very excited to share that with me. It still has to be put on the ballot but, if it passes, it’ll be the first time people have used the state constitution to add gay-marriage rights instead of banning them.
PGN: That would be nice. What was your favorite game as a kid? NW: 10 Penny. It’s a card game, kind of like rummy. I was just playing it with my partner last night!
PGN: Who was your favorite teacher? NW: Easy. Mrs. Keys. She was my second-grade teacher and she was amazing. She only had one assignment all year, the same homework every day, and that was to observe. Her room was constructed in a way that there were aquariums everywhere. She would do things like have me count how many times a lizard flicked its tongue in a minute, then she’d ask how many times that would be in an hour, have me write about the lizard, read about it, find out where it came from. You’d find yourself learning math and history and geography and science, all under the guise of observation.
PGN: I love great teachers. Were you an only child? NW: No, I have a brother four years younger. When my mom told him I was gay, Kenny said, “Don’t worry Mom, I’ll have the kids in the family.” He was 11 at the time and he did. I now have a wonderful 3-year-old nephew named Theo.
PGN: What was a favorite adventure with Kenny? NW: Oh God, there’s lots. I’ll tell you a favorite moment. He was the star quarterback and for graduation he wrote a song that was sung at the ceremony. I was really proud to see him show his sensitive side.
PGN: What was the worst trouble you got into? NW: Oh gosh, we fought over who got to play Nintendo and stupid stuff like that.
PGN: Favorite TV show from childhood? NW: Interestingly or strangely, my brother and I both loved to watch Bob Ross and “The Joy of Painting.” We loved watching him paint his happy trees and happy clouds. One day my aunt walked in and saw us watching it and was like, “OK, what were you just watching? I can tell you just switched the channel!” She didn’t believe that two boys were home alone voluntarily watching Bob Ross paint landscapes.
PGN: When did you leave Nevada? NW: I left to go to San Francisco to attend the American Conservatory Theater, and then I went to Emerson College in Boston.
PGN: Woot woot! I went to Emerson too. Tenth floor, 100 Beacon St., which they called Bacon Street because we were all such hams. NW: [Laughs.] Really? I lived in the same building, on the same floor! High five! (Note: That’s the first time I’ve ever high-fived a member of the clergy.)
PGN: What was a good memory from college? NW: Emerson has a 14th-century castle in Holland where you can live and study for a semester. I went when I was 20 and met my biological father for the first time. I found out he’d met his biological father when he was 20 too.
PGN: I remember Emerson life being like the movie “Fame.” We’d take over a subway car and dance and sing. NW: Ha! I was the lead dancer in our production of “Fame” my junior year. I’m a little freaked out about our similarities! My friend Seth used to strut up and down the cars and do whole numbers. We’d even have the subway operator blink the lights in the cars for effect!
PGN: So cool. You were a theater major? NW: Yes, with a minor in education. After I left Emerson, I went back to Nevada and taught theater. While there, I tried to adopt a child. I went to an agency and they went through all my records and said, “You’re one of the best candidates as a single father that we’ve seen.” We were going line by line through the check list: “Are you willing to take a disabled child, a child of a different race?” etc. They asked if I ever intended to get married. I said, “Most likely,” and she asked, “What do you imagine your wedding to look like?” I said, “I don’t know, it would depend on what my husband might want too.” I could see her recoil and she actually clutched her cross necklace and said, “I’m sorry but you don’t meet our definition of a family.” After that, I packed everything I owned, called a company called Driveaway and said, “I’ll drive a car anywhere you want” and ended up in Bethesda, Md. From there, I moved in with a friend of mine in New York who was a Rockette and stayed in New York for eight years. I worked at NYU and Columbia, where I’m finishing my doctorate now.
PGN: And how did the Reverend part happen? NW: Right. When I was 15, my high-school girlfriend was the daughter of a Presbyterian minister. When I came out to her, her father said, “Be his friend” and when I came to him with a pamphlet I’d been given for a church that could help “pray the gay away,” he crumpled it up and told me it was bullshit.
PGN: In those words? NW: [Laughs.] Yes! Then while I was at Emerson, I worked as a theater-arts instructor at a Presbyterian church for four years. I was openly gay and they were very welcoming. Between that and the lesbian at the Unitarian Church that my grandmother took me to meet, I’d had a lot of positive religious experiences. Incrementally, I took more and more courses on moral and intellectual and faith development and then did ministerial internships. Though I’m a humanist, I’ve found refuge in Unitarian/Universalism because there’s no creator dogma. I’ve been at this church for six years.
PGN:What was a moment that stands out in your years of ministry? Where you’ve gotten to say, “This is bullshit.” NW: I’ve been working with a couple, Kim and Sara. I married them a while back and they’ve been facing some extraordinary discrimination. Like Sara not being able to put Kim on her health plan. That’s bullshit. It’s invidious discrimination and I won’t stand for it, so we’re fighting it. At the same time, just [recently], Exodus ministry — the organization that advocated reparative therapy known as “pray away the gay” — just apologized and are shutting down their doors. To have one of the most homophobic groups in the country apologize for their actions against the LGBT community is huge! That kind of turnaround gives me hope.
PGN: I was impressed by the number of different causes that your church champions — everything from gay rights to immigration to environmental issues. I was even reading about something you call “ethical eating.” NW: The seventh principal of our beliefs is affirming and promoting what we call the interdependent web of existence. I’m very clear that all of this was not made for our consumption. I’m bold in my challenge to religions who articulate dominion theology. I think it causes great harm to the Earth and humans and other beings. Ethical eating has been our social-justice theme for three years. Food justice. For instance, I gave a sermon on the ethics of genetically modified foods. I asked the CEO of Monsanto seven questions about their practices. He responded and invited us out to St. Louis, where a two-hour meeting turned into four days and we met with 14 senior executives and others. We asked them to lead the field by adopting a code of ethics and they were captivated by the idea. We asked them to vow to do no harm. That led them to come here and have dinner with members of our congregation. We like to grapple with moral issues of our time, whether it’s environmental issues, sex trafficking, contraception, social justice, animal rights; we’re not afraid of conflict or controversy.
PGN: Yeah, I saw on the calendar you have a meeting coming up about the politics of ritual circumcision. NW: True, I have a big problem with someone using the Bible to justify violence. Just because someone says, “God told me to circumcise my female child,” it doesn’t mean they have the right to do it. I don’t think any religion should be exempt from laws designed to protect the rights of children.
PGN: I understand you’re a vegetarian? NW: Yes, I have a sermon that asked people to consider, not what happens when we die, but what happens when we kill three times a day. Not to spend so much time on the unknown of the afterlife — none of us really knows what’s going to happen — but we can do something about taking life. For me, it started when I was a child in Nevada and I was fed my pet cow. His name was McKinley and I was there when he was born. I didn’t know that he was being raised to be our food until one night when we were having dinner. Everyone was laughing and laughing over the fact that we were eating “Big Macs” for dinner. It set me on a trajectory thinking about my relationship with animals and food.
PGN: One of the tenets I enjoyed was, “Be out in the world six days a week and come back and tell us how that informs your faith.” It was a refreshing change from those who just go out to proselytize. NW: Yeah, we use many different sources of authority, unlike most religions that use one Bible or text, or one teacher or tradition as law. In UU, our first source is direct experience, so my experience of consuming my pet McKinley is a legitimate source of truth and knowledge for me.
PGN: So how did you meet your partner? NW: I met him three years ago when my ministerial colleague set us up. We met at Woody’s. He walked in and said, “Oh no, I don’t think this atheist is up for drinking with two ministers.” I told him that I thought atheism was sexy and that was the start of our relationship!
PGN: Do you find people are a little nonplussed when they find out that you’re a minister? NW: Yeah. That’s why I usually curse in the first minute after revealing it. It breaks the ice.
PGN: What’s your guiltiest pleasure? NW: I love “Mad Men” and I love Sade. I’ve seen her perform twice. Seriously love her!
PGN: Celebrity crush? NW: George Stephanopoulos.
PGN: [Laughs.] OK, I can skip the next question asking if you’d consider yourself a nerd! NW: Yeah, I guess that’s a given.
PGN: Hobbies? NW: I love riding my bike and traveling. I’ve been to 17 countries and I just got back from Costa Rica.
PGN: My parents told me that I was _____ as a child. NW: The first line in my baby book read, “Nathan’s the most sensitive baby I’ve ever held.”
PGN: Aww. What’s your middle name? NW: Coffey. It’s Irish, my mom’s maiden name. And yet I’ve never had a drop of coffee!
PGN: Any notable ancestors? NW: On my mother’s side of the family, we’re somehow related to Martha Washington and my biological grandfather was full-blooded Cherokee.
PGN: Last time you cried? NW: When I watched Stephen Colbert announce the death of his mom. She was born the week that women got the right to vote, which shows you how relatively recent it was. To think of how much change she’d seen in her lifetime is profound.
PGN: And since we’re here in the cradle of liberty, tell me about your article “Liberty: A Vote or A Veto?”
NW: Well, it’s about the health-care mandate that requires private organizations to provide contraceptives and the corporations that are fighting it. I wrote that owners of for-profit companies have the freedom to vote their conscience, to speak their mind, to persuade and petition, but free exercise of speech and religion does not give them the right to unilaterally veto the rights of their employees. I.e.: The founder of Domino’s Pizza doesn’t have the right in the name of religion to deny his employees access to legal contraceptives. When our corporations become the de facto state religion, those CEOs become the high priests of that theocracy. And that’s a fundamental perversion of the definition of religious freedom.
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